Star Wars

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:40 pm

So, the prequels sucked, had a lot of plot holes. I'm down with that.

But what's the stance around here on the Extended Universe? Back in my early teens, I read quite a bit of them.

And, I dunno. R.A. Salvatore said that Star Wars material is actually pretty edited, and said an editor called and chewed his ass out when a bit in Vector Prime had Solo and his son upgrading some of the weapons on the Falcon. As I recall, he said he was told, "Don't mess with perfection."

But to have that supposedly rigorous examination for consistency, and then have George Lucas decide to invalidate the chronology you believed to be firmly set? Eesh.

ckafrica · Post by **ckafrica** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:42 pm

I can't remember the last novel I read (It's probably been 12-15 years) but I was getting tired of the 4-6 heroes saving the galaxy yet again. I remember the X-Wing books being pretty cool as well as Courtship of princess leia but there were some real lemons like darksaber (the one with the huttese deathdildo) and crystal star Never read anything into the new jedi era but what I've read about the vector prime bad guys makes me think "bleach"

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:58 pm

Most of the extended universe is crap. Most of the rest is inoffensive, but I wouldn't call it good. There is a slice of worthwhile stuff, but you have to dredge quite a bit to get your hands on it.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:14 pm

Ah yes, Star Wars. My perspective on the setting is a bit different than most. I genuinely liked Jar Jar Binks and the fourth (Episode I) movie. I have some fondness for the setting in general. However, there are many things about it that irritate me.

Whenever I contemplate setting a game in the Star Wars universe, I find that the most interesting ideas involve many conflicts that are best resolved through debate and compromise. Then I remember that it's Star Wars, and that if some moronic megalomaniac isn't up to evil shenanigans, something's up.

- - -

Also, General Grievous set a precedent. I can now introduce a shady bacta vendor named Doctor Nefarious.

- - -

Also, Force-Wielder power inflation is hilarious. When minor acolyte enemies in Jedi Knight II-III could matrix-dodge sniper rifle shots (even when you aimed so that the energy beam passed through the character model anyways) and Force-push away incoming concussion bolts but you couldn't, I think a line was crossed.

- - -

Also, the Sith belief in "Doing whatever you want to do" is amusing when your character is extremely fond of helping people out for no reward.

Tshern · Post by **Tshern** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:39 pm

Avoraciopoctules wrote:Ah yes, Star Wars. My perspective on the setting is a bit different than most. I genuinely liked Jar Jar Binks and the fourth (Episode I) movie. I have some fondness for the setting in general. However, there are many things about it that irritate me.

What?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:55 pm

Jar Jar Binks was one of the most bullshit fucknut characters put up on the big screen, but really, he's just a lightning rod for the problems of Episode I. He is not the only or even the biggest thing wrong with the movie. If his character had been transplanted into the original trilogy those movies wouldn't have been all that much worse off.

Episode I's problem was that there was nothing at stake. The entire fucking movie was a stupid-ass blockade caused by shitty government. I mean, really, Naboo and the Trade Federation were part of the Republic at this time. Why the fuck was this even an issue at all?

And just to tease us, the damn movie intentionally went out of its way to show us a suffering slave planet where the Republic couldn't do anything about it. Goddamn it, that could've been the backdrop for a good movie, but no, the fucking Jedi can't give two shits about a slave planet within telescope distance of Naboo, but tax disputes! Oh boy!

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:59 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Episode I's problem was that there was nothing at stake. The entire fucking movie was a stupid-ass blockade caused by shitty government.

I think it became more than a blockade when the droid army was dropped and invaded the planet.

Though admittedly this problem was small scale for Star Wars, where the prior movies involved the fate of the galaxy, the fate of one planet seemed like it was trivial.

And just to tease us, the damn movie intentionally went out of its way to show us a suffering slave planet where the Republic couldn't do anything about it. Goddamn it, that could've been the backdrop for a good movie, but no, the fucking Jedi can't give two shits about a slave planet within telescope distance of Naboo, but tax disputes! Oh boy!

I imagine the Republic is a lot like the UN in that they don't necessarily just invade and declare war on people, even if they could conquer that country. I mean there are a great deal of atrocities going on in the world right now that the UN has the power to stop, but they just don't.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:00 pm

Tshern wrote:
Avoraciopoctules wrote:I genuinely liked Jar Jar Binks
What?

Yes. A character who could contribute almost as much as the others, but through luck and an innocent worldview (allowing him to ask questions the others wouldn't) rather than innate power and analytical skill. The fool, an adventurer archetype I see little of nowadays. If Jar Jar always escaped any consequences for his sillier actions, I might be a little annoyed. But he only dodged serious consequences, and I am a little disappointed we never saw him involved in a fight with Darth Maul, where he surely would have accidentally enabled an escape route for the group or temporarily incapacitated the foe through bumbling into a stack of boxes.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:02 pm

Avoraciopoctules wrote:If Jar Jar always escaped any consequences for his sillier actions, I might be a little annoyed. But he only dodged serious consequences, and I am a little disappointed we never saw him involved in a fight with Darth Maul, where he surely would have accidentally enabled an escape route for the group or temporarily incapacitated the foe through bumbling into a stack of boxes.

Wait are you serious? Jar Jar against Darth Maul?! And you expect him to do something other than just get light sabered in half?

Honestly I hate the blundering fool archetype in any movie, because it kills the illusion of danger. So instead of saying, "wow that droid army was badass." You're just saying, "What a bunch of chumps, they lost to Jar Jar."

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:04 pm

RandomCasualty2 wrote:Wait are you serious? Jar Jar against Darth Maul?! And you expect him to do something other than just get light sabered in half?

He has ridiculous plot-bestowed luck. I'm sure he'd do something. Darth Maul would probably underestimate him the first time. I'm assuming the whole group is involved.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:05 pm

RandomCasualty2 wrote:I imagine the Republic is a lot like the UN in that they don't necessarily just invade and declare war on people, even if they could conquer that country. I mean there are a great deal of atrocities going on in the world right now that the UN has the power to stop, but they just don't.

Naboo and the TF were part of the Republic. While I can imagine the UN sitting on its hands if Kenya decided to invade Ethiopia, if Germany invaded Denmark there would be a much larger response. But the conflict is just retarded, anyway. Imagine if, say, South Carolina decided to blockade Puerto Rico. That's the kind of retardation we're dealing with here.

Also, RC2, he's just messing with you. Don't get too worked up.

Neeeek · Post by **Neeeek** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:40 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Episode I's problem was that there was nothing at stake. The entire fucking movie was a stupid-ass blockade caused by shitty government. I mean, really, Naboo and the Trade Federation were part of the Republic at this time. Why the fuck was this even an issue at all?

Episode I's problem was it was a pile of effects on top of wht should have been a 15 minute sub-plot stretched into a 2 hour movie.

In terms of the major plot of the series, all that happened in Episode I was the Jedi found Anakin and removed him from his home planet for training. The entire movie could have been done as a flashback at the beginning of what was Episode II (which would now be Episode I) giving them enough room to actually cover the plot they needed to in last two movies but couldn't due to lack of time.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:23 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
Naboo and the TF were part of the Republic. While I can imagine the UN sitting on its hands if Kenya decided to invade Ethiopia, if Germany invaded Denmark there would be a much larger response. But the conflict is just retarded, anyway. Imagine if, say, South Carolina decided to blockade Puerto Rico. That's the kind of retardation we're dealing with here.

Yeah I know. I was meaning the invasion thing intended more for how slavery on Tatooine can happen without the republic stopping it and why they were more interested in Naboo.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:56 pm

Individual planets were individually controlled. It was more like the US pre-federalism.

And the Trade Federation wasn't a series of inhabited planets, but a corporation which did the work of carrying freight and owning mines in space.

So it's more like the UN being called in than the US senate; the republics' senate was toothless. They didn't have an army (until the clones), they depended upon renting these things from various planet-states which ha varying levels of technology which they may or may not guard jealously.

-Crissa

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:03 pm

And how the fuck was I supposed to know that sitting in the theater for the first time and wondering why the Republic was set up so stupid?

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:13 pm

Because in the first scene, the entirety of the Republic's response is to send a priest to negotiate, and their ship is blown to smithereens inside the Trade Federation's ship?

-Crissa

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:20 pm

Crissa wrote:Because in the first scene, the entirety of the Republic's response is to send a priest to negotiate, and their ship is blown to smithereens inside the Trade Federation's ship?

-Crissa

The scene where the TF flips out and decides to kill Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon doesn't give us any insight into how or why the government is set up this way any more than Rick Santorum shooting Barney Frank in the middle of a filibuster and jumping onto his corpse does.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:06 am

I think you should listen to what they're saying as they arrive. Did you miss the opening sequence?

-Crissa

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:18 am

An interesting StarWars parody, translated from Mandarin: http://conway.rutgers.edu/~ccshan/wiki/ ... With_love/

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:44 am

The Grand Admiral Thrawn trilogy was pretty good, or I thought so when I first read it.

The stupid in the senate is how Amidala is so damn eager to put Palpatine in charge even though she, or at least an advisor, should have known that the senate can't even get its act together to send much more then a strongly worded memo. They did everything they could, evidenced by the fact that Palpatine did nothing more. Why did we have to watch that? Why did it happen?

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:50 pm

I like the Darths and Droids version of SW, I never really watched the new movies, multiple descriptions of how the ball was dropped hasn't made me really want to watch them either.

I actually like to read the crazy and ridiculous SW comics though.